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Abstract: Transcript of the Oral Reasons for Sentence

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             R. v. McLeod, 2012 NWTSC 26             S-1-CR-2011-000003



             IN THE SUPREME COURT OF THE NORTHWEST TERRITORIES



             IN THE MATTER OF:



                               HER MAJESTY THE QUEEN





                                       - V -





                                 BRIAN JAMES MCLEOD

             _________________________________________________________

             Transcript of the Oral Reasons for Sentence by The

             Honourable Justice V. A. Schuler, sitting in Yellowknife,

             in the Northwest Territories, on the 28th day of March,

             A.D., 2012.

             _________________________________________________________



             APPEARANCES:



             Mr. G. Boyd:                  Counsel for the Crown

             Mr. T. Bock:                  Counsel for the Defence



                   ------------------------------------------

                Charges under s. 271 x 2 Criminal Code of Canada

				     S. 486.4 PUBLICATION BAN


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         1      THE COURT:             Brian James McLeod has pled

         2          guilty to and is now convicted of sexual assault

         3          on two young girls, and I now have the duty to

         4          sentence him for those crimes.  The two young

         5          victims are twins and they are cousins of

         6          Mr. McLeod.  At the time in question, in 2009,

         7          they were a few months shy of 10 years old;

         8          Mr. McLeod was 20.

         9               He was invited to their home to drink

        10          alcohol by the person who was looking after

        11          the victims.  He drank and then began to play

        12          with the victim whom I will refer to as A.,

        13          during which he held her and put his hand down

        14          the front of her pajamas and touched her vagina.

        15          He stopped and left the room when called away

        16          by the caregiver.  The victim then went to bed.

        17          Mr. McLeod came into the bedroom and tried to

        18          wake her, but she pretended to be asleep.  He got

        19          onto the bed and pulled down her pajama pants,

        20          got on top of her, and had anal intercourse with

        21          her.  During this she pretended to be asleep.

        22          When Mr. McLeod left the room she locked herself

        23          in the washroom and remained there until the

        24          morning.

        25               During the same time period, in 2009, but

        26          on a different evening, Mr. McLeod was again

        27          at the victims' home visiting the individual






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         1          looking after them.  He was drinking with that

         2          individual.  The victim M. went to bed that

         3          night and awoke early in the morning to find

         4          that her pants had been pulled down and her

         5          panties removed.  It is admitted that Mr. McLeod

         6          had done this.  The victim found him sleeping

         7          beside her.  She put her pants and panties

         8          back on, turned on the TV, and got back in bed.

         9          Mr. McLeod woke up and pulled her pants down,

        10          she pulled them back up.  He fell off the bed

        11          and left the room.  The victims' mother was not

        12          at home at the time of the incidents referred to

        13          and they were in the care of the boarder in the

        14          home.

        15               In September, 2009, staff at the victims'

        16          school noticed that the victims were having

        17          problems, and as a result of an interview with

        18          them the victims disclosed what Mr. McLeod had

        19          done to them.  A police investigation was then

        20          started.

        21               Both victims provided victim impact

        22          statements in which they speak of feeling

        23          afraid of Mr. McLeod since these incidents

        24          and feeling that they cannot trust their

        25          relatives and other people.  A. speaks of

        26          having nightmares about what happened and

        27          M. speaks of feeling dirty as a result of what






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         1          happened.  Sadly, it appears that other children

         2          know about what happened and they make cruel

         3          comments to the victims about it, which is

         4          understandably very upsetting to the victims.

         5          I have to say that it is very disturbing, that

         6          with the prevalence of sexual abuse of children

         7          in our society and the publicity about it,

         8          that other children would be so uncaring and

         9          heartless, and I suspect perhaps simply unaware

        10          of the psychological harm that actions like those

        11          of Mr. McLeod invariably cause.

        12               The Court has been provided with two

        13          pre-sentence reports.  Counsel for Mr. McLeod

        14          had asked that the pre-sentence report that was

        15          originally received be redone to address some

        16          things in it that he felt did not necessarily

        17          reflect his client's background and reaction

        18          to the offences.  With the consent of counsel

        19          I have reviewed both the original and the second

        20          pre-sentence report.

        21               Those reports and the additional information

        22          provided by Mr. McLeod's counsel indicate that

        23          Mr. McLeod is a 23-year-old aboriginal man

        24          who grew up and has lived in the small Delta

        25          community of Tsiigehtchic.  His father left the

        26          family when Mr. McLeod was seven years old, and

        27          although his father lives in Fort McPherson they






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         1          do not have a close relationship.  Mr. McLeod

         2          and his five siblings were raised by their mother

         3          alone with little or no financial help from the

         4          father.

         5               It appears from the pre-sentence report

         6          that Mr. McLeod considered his godfather like

         7          a father and spent a great deal of time with him.

         8          His godfather passed away in 2006.  Mr. McLeod

         9          dropped out of school in grade 7, and although

        10          he made some attempts to get his grade 10 he was

        11          ultimately expelled from school.  He has worked

        12          as a surveyor's assistant in the summers since

        13          about 2007, as well as doing odd jobs in the

        14          summers for the Band office in Tsiigehtchic.

        15          Apart from that he is supported by his mother.

        16               Mr. McLeod's counsel was able to provide

        17          more information about the family after talking

        18          to Mr. McLeod's mother, who is currently in

        19          the hospital in Edmonton awaiting a kidney

        20          transplant.  That information is that the

        21          mother's parents are both residential school

        22          survivors, and the mother herself attended a

        23          residential school for nine years.  Mr. McLeod's

        24          father also attended.  The mother has said that

        25          she has anger issues, which have affected the

        26          family, and that there was violence in the home

        27          when the children were growing up.  She was






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         1          assaulted and threatened by the father, who

         2          spent time in jail for his actions.  Some of

         3          this was witnessed by Mr. McLeod.

         4               Apparently his mother was sufficiently

         5          concerned about the affect on her children,

         6          that after leaving the father she took the

         7          children for counselling, but that was not

         8          very successful in that the children were

         9          reluctant to speak about these issues.  She

        10          reported that she feels that Brian McLeod

        11          never understood why his father was not

        12          present and that he was angry about that.

        13          He was in counselling for anger management,

        14          but it is not clear exactly when that was or

        15          for how long.

        16               Mr. McLeod's mother reported that he was

        17          active in sports and has good marks at school,

        18          although that seems to be contradicted by the

        19          information in the pre-sentence report, unless

        20          she is referring to his very early years in

        21          school.  She also reported a change in Mr. McLeod

        22          after he returned from being away at school in

        23          Inuvik.  He would not listen to her, he got into

        24          drugs and alcohol, was full of anger and did not

        25          seem to care.  He became quiet and reserved after

        26          the death of his godfather.

        27               The difficulty that Mr. McLeod has had in






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         1          dealing with his godfather's death was confirmed

         2          by a brother and a long-time friend, who also

         3          spoke to counsel for Mr. McLeod.  It is also

         4          confirmed by the observations of the author

         5          of the pre-sentence report, who witnessed

         6          Mr. McLeod's emotional reaction when he spoke

         7          about the influence and presence of his godfather

         8          in his life.

         9               As I have said, the second pre-sentence

        10          report was ordered at the request of counsel

        11          for Mr. McLeod, and that was in part because

        12          the first report was quite negative in that

        13          it related that Mr. McLeod did not express

        14          remorse for the victims and was not forthcoming

        15          or cooperative.  The second report describes him

        16          as "hostile, argumentative and uncooperative."

        17          Although it does relate that he said he was

        18          sorry and that he was upset.  It also relates

        19          that Mr. McLeod feels that the sexual assaults

        20          would not have happened if he had not blacked

        21          out from drinking and smoking dope.

        22               It is clear from the pre-sentence report

        23          that Mr. McLeod was not willing to talk about

        24          his thoughts or feelings or the effect of his

        25          actions on the victims.  Why that is I cannot

        26          say, I am not a psychologist.  But I have no

        27          doubt that for Mr. McLeod to ensure that he does






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         1          not get drunk and commit more crimes, especially

         2          more sexual assaults, he will have to come to

         3          grips with what he has done and with what his

         4          own problems are, that he has to be willing to

         5          get help for that, and that usually means that

         6          an offender has to be willing to talk to people

         7          who can help him.  So Mr. McLeod needs to change

         8          the attitude that is reported in the pre-sentence

         9          report, which is that he feels he does not need

        10          programs or treatment.

        11               Mr. McLeod has a record, although it

        12          consists entirely of offences of failing to

        13          comply with court process.  He has five such

        14          convictions, ranging from 2008 to 2009.  Counsel

        15          advised that the last two are in relation to the

        16          sexual assault charges.  The record indicates

        17          a failure to abide by promises he has made to

        18          the Court.  He has, however, no prior record

        19          of sexual or violent offences.

        20               The mitigating factors in this case are

        21          primarily the guilty pleas.  They were not,

        22          however, entered at an early date.  A jury

        23          trial had been scheduled in May, 2011, to

        24          take place in November, 2011, and it was only

        25          two weeks prior to the trial that the Court was

        26          advised that Mr. McLeod would re-elect and plead

        27          guilty.  However, the two weeks notice did mean






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         1          that the Court did not have to travel to Inuvik

         2          for this matter.  Also, the preliminary inquiry

         3          had been waived by Mr. McLeod, and since there

         4          was no trial that meant the victims did not

         5          have to testify at all.  This Court is well

         6          aware, and has seen in court, that testifying

         7          about the experience of a sexual assault is a

         8          traumatic experience for victims, and I have

         9          no doubt that in this case it would have been

        10          even more traumatic considering how young these

        11          victims are.  So I do give Mr. McLeod substantial

        12          credit for the guilty pleas.

        13               Mr. McLeod's age is also a somewhat

        14          mitigating factor, as he is still relatively

        15          young.  I also take into account in mitigation

        16          that Mr. McLeod did acknowledge to the police

        17          that he had committed these crimes.  Even if he

        18          was not able or willing to discuss what happened

        19          with the author of the pre-sentence report,

        20          the fact that he acknowledged his guilt to the

        21          police and that he has pled guilty does indicate

        22          to me that he is taking responsibility for what

        23          he did, which in itself is a form of remorse.

        24          Finally, interviews conducted by the author of

        25          the pre-sentence report with people who know

        26          Mr. McLeod suggest that these crimes are out

        27          of character for him.






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         1               I must also consider the aggravating

         2          factors.  The main aggravating factor is the

         3          young age of the victims.  They were and still

         4          are children, and they are entitled to enjoy

         5          their childhood before having to deal with the

         6          troubles and anxieties that come with being a

         7          teenager and an adult.  Mr. McLeod has taken

         8          that away from them and has changed their lives

         9          forever.

        10               It is also aggravating that in each

        11          instance Mr. McLeod did not stop at one act

        12          of sexual assault, but continued the assaults.

        13          He persisted in assaulting the victims.  Once

        14          he got away with it with victim A. he tried

        15          again with M., although there is no evidence

        16          that the assault on her was as invasive as

        17          the one on A; indeed no evidence that he did

        18          anything other than take off M.'s pants and

        19          panties.

        20               It is also aggravating that the victims

        21          were not just vulnerable because of their age

        22          but because they were in their own bed asleep

        23          during most of the assaults.  This is not a

        24          classic breach of trust situation, but I agree

        25          with Crown Counsel that there is an element of

        26          breach of trust involved.  Mr. McLeod was invited

        27          into the home of the victims, his young cousins,






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         1          and while there he took advantage of his status

         2          as a guest to abuse them.  They should have

         3          been able to trust him as their older cousin,

         4          but instead, as I said, he abused them.

         5               The boarder, who was supposed to have been

         6          looking after the victims, clearly should have

         7          made Mr. McLeod leave the home after he had

         8          been drinking instead of putting the children

         9          entrusted to her care at risk, and I say that

        10          simply as an observation.  It was not something

        11          that was pointed out on Mr. McLeod's behalf

        12          or something that he is trying to rely on in

        13          any way.  But in the end the fault, the real

        14          responsibility for what happened, lies at the

        15          feet of Mr. McLeod.

        16               The Criminal Code of Canada in Section 718

        17          makes it clear that the fundamental purpose of

        18          sentencing people who commit crimes, the reason

        19          that we sentence people, is to ensure that people

        20          respect the law, to make it clear what conduct

        21          is against the law, to stop people from breaking

        22          the law, to keep people away from the rest of

        23          the community when that is necessary, to assist

        24          in rehabilitating people who commit crimes,

        25          to provide reparation to victims of crime

        26          or the community, and to promote a sense of

        27          responsibility in offenders and an acknowledgment






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         1          of the harm done to victims and to the community.

         2               The Criminal Code also requires that a

         3          sentence be proportionate to the gravity or

         4          seriousness of the offence and the degree

         5          of responsibility or blameworthiness of the

         6          offender.  In this case the offences are very

         7          serious, especially the anal intercourse with

         8          the one victim.  Mr. McLeod bears a high degree

         9          of responsibility.  He went to the victims' home,

        10          he got drunk to an extent that he says he blacked

        11          out, he did not control himself, and he committed

        12          horrible crimes against his little cousins.  The

        13          alcohol is not to blame, and that is something

        14          that Mr. McLeod needs to understand.  Alcohol

        15          is not something that owes responsibility to

        16          anyone.  People owe responsibility to other

        17          people, including members of their own family.

        18          Mr. McLeod is to blame for drinking the alcohol,

        19          for drinking too much of it, and for doing things

        20          he likely would not have done in his normal state

        21          of mind.

        22               It has been said many many times by this

        23          Court and others that the main objectives in

        24          sentencing for sexual assault are denunciation

        25          and deterrence, denunciation being society's

        26          rejection of this conduct, and deterrence

        27          meaning to stop both Mr. McLeod and others






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         1          from committing sexual assault.  Although

         2          Mr. McLeod has not committed this type of

         3          offence before and although there is no reason

         4          to think that he will commit this type of offence

         5          in the future, sexual assault, whether it be

         6          on children, adults or teenagers, is a huge and

         7          seemingly unsolvable problem in the Northwest

         8          Territories.  I say that because over and over

         9          again we see young men like Mr. McLeod who get

        10          drunk and then sexually attack others.  For a

        11          few minutes of selfish gratification they change

        12          their own and the victims' lives forever.  So

        13          because of the need to send a strong message

        14          to serve both denunciation and deterrence the

        15          sentence for this type of conduct is usually

        16          one of jail for a number of years.

        17               In Mr. McLeod's case the Crown takes the

        18          position that the range reflected in the case

        19          law for offences of this nature is four to six

        20          years.  Defence did not challenge that, and

        21          I agree that that is the usual range.  The

        22          Crown seeks a sentence at the high end of that

        23          range, that is five and a half to six years,

        24          less credit for the approximately 12 months

        25          Mr. McLeod has been in remand.  Defence

        26          says that a sentence of four years would

        27          be appropriate less the remand time.






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         1               Clearly the sexual assault on A., in other

         2          words the one involving anal intercourse, is the

         3          most serious of the assaults, and in isolation

         4          would warrant a more serious sentence.  As I am

         5          sentencing Mr. McLeod for his actions against

         6          both victims I must bear in mind totality and

         7          ensure that the total sentence is not too long.

         8               In considering an appropriate sentence

         9          I must also take into account that Mr. McLeod

        10          is aboriginal, Gwich'in.  Section 718.2(e) of

        11          the Criminal Code directs that:

        12

        13               All available sanctions other

        14               than imprisonment that are

        15               reasonable in the circumstances

        16               should be considered for all

        17               offenders, with particular attention

        18               to the circumstances of aboriginal

        19               offenders.

        20

        21               In the Gladue case the Supreme Court of

        22          Canada said that Section 718.2(e) must have

        23          been intended by Parliament to redress in part

        24          the documented overrepresentation of aboriginal

        25          people in jails in Canada.  Section 718.2(e)

        26          was said by the Supreme Court of Canada to be

        27          a direction to judges to inquire into the causes






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         1          of the problem and to endeavour to remedy it

         2          to the extent that a remedy is possible through

         3          the sentencing process by using a restorative

         4          approach.

         5               Gladue was decided in 1999.  I think that

         6          it is fair to say that sentencing judges have

         7          not always found it easy to determine appropriate

         8          ways of complying with Gladue.  Once the sad

         9          history and circumstances of aboriginal people

        10          are acknowledged, how is a judge to translate

        11          that into a different sentence than he or she

        12          might otherwise impose?

        13               The Supreme Court of Canada has addressed

        14          this issue again in a decision released last

        15          week in R. v. Ipeelee [2012] S.C.C. 13.  The

        16          Supreme Court of Canada has told us that:

        17

        18               In every sentencing case involving

        19               an aboriginal offender, including

        20               cases involving serious offences,

        21               a judge must consider

        22                 (a) the unique systemic or

        23                     background factors which

        24                     may have played a part in

        25                     bringing the particular

        26                     aboriginal offender before

        27                     the court; and






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         1                 (b) the types of sentencing

         2                     procedures and sanctions

         3                     which may be appropriate

         4                     in the circumstances for

         5                     the offender because of

         6                     his or her particular

         7                     aboriginal heritage or

         8                     connection.

         9

        10               That is at paragraph 59 of the case, and at

        11          paragraph 60 the Court goes on to clarify that:

        12

        13               Judges must take judicial notice

        14               of such matters as the history

        15               of colonialism, displacement and

        16               residential schools, and how that

        17               history continues to translate

        18               into lower educational attainment,

        19               lower incomes, higher unemployment,

        20               higher rates of substance abuse

        21               and suicide, and higher levels

        22               of incarceration for aboriginal

        23               people.

        24

        25               In this case I am satisfied that with

        26          the two pre-sentence reports and the extra

        27          information provided by defence counsel, the






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         1          requirements in the Ipeelee case for extensive

         2          information about the aboriginal offender before

         3          the Court and the background factors that I have

         4          referred to have been satisfied.  In this case,

         5          although I can, according to what the Supreme

         6          Court of Canada has said in Ipeelee simply take

         7          judicial notice of systemic factors such as the

         8          residential school experience, I also have actual

         9          information provided by defence counsel about

        10          some of those factors.

        11               So as I have already noted there is

        12          information that the residential school

        13          experience lived by Mr. McLeod's grandparents

        14          and parents has had a negative impact on his

        15          upbringing.  There is information that leads

        16          me to conclude that the residential school

        17          experience and the other factors referred to

        18          by the Supreme Court of Canada have translated

        19          for Mr. McLeod into a family life marred by

        20          alcohol and violence and neglect in the sense

        21          of what I would describe as an abandonment by

        22          Mr. McLeod's father.  I can infer that these

        23          factors have played a significant part in

        24          Mr. McLeod's own drinking habits and no doubt

        25          his outlook on the world.

        26               In Ipeelee the Supreme Court of Canada

        27          said also that systemic factors provide






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         1          the necessary context to enable a judge

         2          to determine an appropriate sentence,

         3          and it added:

         4

         5               This is not to say that those

         6               factors need not be tied in

         7               some way to the particular

         8               offender and offence.  Unless

         9               the unique circumstances of

        10               the particular offender bear

        11               on his or her culpability for

        12               the offence or indicate which

        13               sentencing objectives can and

        14               should be actualized they will

        15               not influence the ultimate

        16               sentence.

        17

        18               Although I do not consider that the

        19          family background and the systemic factors

        20          make Mr. McLeod less responsible for his

        21          actions, they may explain to some degree

        22          his apparent lack of insight into those

        23          actions and his insistence to the author

        24          of the pre-sentence report that alcohol

        25          is the real problem.  If alcohol abuse is

        26          a significant factor in an individual's

        27          childhood, and in combination with violence






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         1          seems like a normal way to live, then I would

         2          expect that drinking until you black out and

         3          then just living with whatever the consequences

         4          are seems to Mr. McLeod like a normal way to

         5          live and to see the world.

         6               The more difficult question is whether or

         7          how this should impact the sentence I impose.

         8          The Supreme Court of Canada says that I must

         9          consider sentencing options and sanctions that

        10          are appropriate to Mr. McLeod because of his

        11          aboriginal heritage.  But realistically and

        12          perhaps surprisingly, in light of the large

        13          aboriginal population in the Northwest

        14          Territories, there are very few such options

        15          in the Northwest Territories.  Essentially

        16          there is jail, no jail, or jail and probation.

        17               No one suggests that no jail would be

        18          appropriate in this very serious case.  Probation

        19          means abiding by conditions, and Mr. McLeod has

        20          shown in the past that he is not very good at

        21          that.  No particular programs that would be

        22          available to him while on probation have been

        23          identified, nor as far as I am aware is there

        24          any intensive residential alcohol treatment

        25          program available in any community in the

        26          Northwest Territories, apart from the 28-day

        27          program in Hay River.  Sadly, from information






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         1          provided again and again in sentencing cases,

         2          it seems like there is more access to remedial

         3          programs in jail than anywhere else.

         4               I conclude that there is no option, apart

         5          from jail in this case, and the only issue

         6          is the length of the jail sentence.  I also

         7          conclude that despite Mr. McLeod's difficulty

         8          in expressing himself to and cooperating with

         9          the author of the pre-sentence report he

        10          has, by his actions, shown that he is taking

        11          responsibility for what he has done.

        12               As I have said, Mr. McLeod is young, 23

        13          years old.  To my eyes he looks even younger.

        14          From his reactions to being interviewed as

        15          related by the author of the pre-sentence

        16          report I conclude that he is somewhat immature.

        17          If he is sent to a penitentiary I have no doubt

        18          that it will be a very frightening experience

        19          and very difficult for him, and it is not an

        20          exaggeration to say that he may end up a victim

        21          of sexual assault himself.  Because of his

        22          youth and his lack of any related record

        23          rehabilitation has to be a consideration in

        24          sentencing Mr. McLeod.  It is to be hoped

        25          that he will come to understand how wrong

        26          his actions were and that he has to ensure

        27          that he never does anything like this again.






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         1               Another factor I have to consider is

         2          Mr. McLeod's remand time.  He has been in

         3          remand since March 2nd, 2011.  Although

         4          I was not told why he was taken into custody

         5          at that time, and the court record is not

         6          altogether clear about that, I infer that

         7          it was the result of the failure to appear

         8          in February, 2011, that is listed on his

         9          criminal record.

        10               As this matter pre-dates the Truth in

        11          Sentencing Act I have discretion in the amount

        12          of credit to be given to the remand time.  Crown

        13          Counsel argued that because Mr. McLeod failed to

        14          appear twice in the course of this matter credit

        15          should be restricted to one-for-one.  Defence

        16          counsel did not suggest any other credit.  I note

        17          from the criminal record that on April 5th, 2011,

        18          Mr. McLeod received a total of 30 days in custody

        19          for the two convictions for failing to appear.

        20          Therefore, as at the end of April or early May

        21          he would have finished serving that sentence,

        22          and for the next 10 months his time in remand was

        23          solely related to the offences that I must now

        24          sentence him for.

        25               In R. v. Sabourin, 2009 NWTCA 6, the

        26          Northwest Territories Court of Appeal cautioned

        27          against reducing the pre-trial custody credit






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         1          by reason of conduct which is capable of being

         2          prosecuted separately.  Care must be taken

         3          that duplication of punishment does not occur.

         4          I conclude from that that I should not reduce

         5          Mr. McLeod's pre-trial custody credit simply

         6          because of the failures to appear.  The reason

         7          I should not do that is that he was prosecuted

         8          separately for those failures to appear and he

         9          was sentenced for them.  So for the 10 months

        10          remand I am going to credit him 18 months.

        11          Stand please, Mr. McLeod.

        12               In my view, Mr. McLeod, particularly in

        13          light of your guilty pleas, the appropriate

        14          sentences in this case are three and a half

        15          years for the assault on A., that is Count 2

        16          in the indictment, that is the assault that

        17          involved anal intercourse; and one year

        18          consecutive, in other words in addition,

        19          for the assault on M., and that is Count 1

        20          in the indictment.  So that is a total of four

        21          and a half years.  With the credit for remand

        22          time applied that leaves three years as the

        23          sentence that you will start serving today.

        24          You may sit down.

        25               There will be a DNA order.  There will

        26          be an order that Mr. McLeod register under

        27          the Sexual Offender Information Registration






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         1          Act and that he report pursuant to that Act

         2          for a period of 20 years.  There will also

         3          be a firearm prohibition order in the usual

         4          terms for 10 years.  The victim surcharge

         5          will be waived because of the jail sentence.

         6               Now, Mr. McLeod, I am sure that you will

         7          be offered help in jail.  You will be offered

         8          programs, you will be offered counselling.  You

         9          are looking like you are sneering there.  You

        10          better take the help that you are offered, you

        11          better do something.  I am not suggesting it is

        12          going to be easy, I am not suggesting it is going

        13          to be comfortable for you.  It will probably be

        14          very uncomfortable because you obviously do not

        15          talk easily to other people.  But you are going

        16          to have to do something, because if your problems

        17          and your background have contributed to the

        18          situation that you are in, the only person

        19          who can deal with those and make sure that

        20          they do not overwhelm the rest of your life

        21          is you.  Other people have been in similar

        22          situations, other people have been able to

        23          do it.  There is no reason why you cannot

        24          do it, but you have to try.  So I am going

        25          to wish you good luck with that because you

        26          are too young to look at spending the rest

        27          of your life in jail.






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         1               I am going to have the clerk endorse the

         2          warrant with a recommendation that Mr. McLeod

         3          be permitted to serve his time in the Northwest

         4          Territories.  I take it there would be no

         5          objection to that.

         6      MR. BOCK:              No, Your Honour.

         7      THE COURT:             That is fine.  Is there

         8          anything further then that I should deal with?

         9      MR. BOYD:              Not from the Crown, Your

        10          Honour.

        11      THE COURT:             I want to thank counsel for

        12          your work in this case.  We will close court.

        13                           -----------------------------

        14

        15                           Certified to be a true and
                                     accurate transcript, pursuant
        16                           to Rules 723 and 724 of the
                                     Supreme Court Rules.
        17

        18
                                     _____________________________
        19                           Joel Bowker
                                     Court Reporter
        20

        21

        22

        23

        24

        25

        26

        27






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